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"The bullet does make a difference as long as bullet placement is correct."

With boring recurrence I suppose I repeat the heart of this web site and forum in almost every category: shot placement and the choice of good bullets. While I like the premium bullets both my sons are quite happy with their Hornady Interbond and SSTs (the latter for brain shots which is all the younger son does; he is just impressed with the .3 MOA these 150gr projectiles at 3,000+ from his 36 year old Musgrave 30-06 print).

"Gut shots don't work even with heavy bullets from large cal magnums."

As I pulled the trigger on the .416 Rigby with a 400gr Peregrine the bushbuck ewe stepped forward but the heavy bullet knocked her over at 130 yards where she stood on the river pebbles just off the over grown bank and I confidently went towards her. 50 yards away she jumped up and zig-zagged into the riverine underbrush of the Loureco river.

My tracker and I waited for 30 minutes and followed her tracks. Later we were on our knees in the dappled, dark under the tree canopy- he pushing the undergrowth aside with his katana (machete) to show me her hoof marks in the wet soil. Half an hour later we found the first blood. Another 30 minutes we found the spot where she had laid down. A 4 inch behind the heart shot the blood mark told us. Nothing after that, not an indication of any tracks or blood. Without a doubt a leopard took her even as we were crawling on knees looking for sign.

A smaller than a Texas white tail doe she was, and despite having been hit by an elephant killing 400gr .416 bullet, the fact that it had missed the heart by 4 inches to the rear she got up and got away.

I absolutely understand the feeling of confidence with a rifle of know accuracy, I feel this way about my various 6.5's. As to bullets back around 1960 I bought a 3lb coffee can full of Sierra 6.5 120gr FB factory second bullets. I still have a little less than half of them now. Those of them shot have accounted for tons of deer. They worked well. I do remember one nice buck I shot & lost. The reason was hunter error. In my young impatience I jerked the trigger & placed the bullet poorly. For sure I was holding the cross hair on the right spot but a jerked trigger botched what should have been a clean kill shot. That lost deer has haunted me for years. That was when I became determined to work diligently on concertinaing on trigger squeeze while working to ignore the excitement of seeing the game. It was difficult for me at first but over time I gradually succeeded. To bad I didn't have proper guidance from an experience hunter back then. I also realize there are many cal's that will get the job done & many different bullets, again when properly placed but I have come to dote on the 6.5 Dom

I have had my fill and more of super fast, light bullets and the destruction they do. Bigger, slower is my motto these days. There was a turning point when I shot a 6pt in the chest at 10 yards with a 3006 and a 150g Winchester Ballistic Supreme molly Ballistic Tip at about 3000 fps. It blew a softball sized hole in the chest of that deer. After dragging it to my ATV and carting it back to camp I had to reach in and pull leaves, pine needles, sticks - you name it out of the chest cavity. That was the END of my association with high speed, light bullets, even though I had already killed a dozen or so with that bullet and pretty much ignored the carnage to that point.

Thank you for that Michael - heavy bullets of strong construction impacting at 2,300-2,400 ft/sec are the very reason why the .308W / 7x57 / 30-06 / .303 Brit / 7x64 Brenneke, 6.5x55 kill the dozen elk-size game animals without big bang or fuss every day out here. I see there is a general move amongst the younger generation of shooters here to go even heavier and slower than what our traditional preference has been.

Certainly with the premium bullets one can go one weight level lower and while I respect Dom's happiness with 120 gr in his 6.5 mms I shall not go lighter than 140 gr even with Peregrines or GSC in 6.5mm.

This is what we like to see:

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The bullet channel inside is 4x calibre. No bullet tumbling due to low mass getting upset by bone.

I do understand the explosive effect of lighter C&C bullets. I have seen the havoc they can to do. The homogeneous copper bullets like the Barnes TSX do not blow up which is why a lighter weight can be used. I have recovered several Barnes X & TSX bullets from the dirt bank behind my 100yd range. They are still intact & still weigh almost 100% of their original weight unless they struck a rock. Even then they do not blow apart. If a 6.5 TSX 120gr TSX driven at 3000fps to 3500fps can completely penetrate a mature elk consistently season after season this shows me dependability. I have used the Barnes 6.5 130gr X & TSX on elk with the exact same results as the 120gr. I have seen the same results with the 270 & 130gr TSX. The 30cals with the 150gr TSX also gives total penetration without an explosive effect. With these tough Barnes TSX bullets you can achieve higher velocity if desired without blowing your game apart. I personally see no reason to use these more expensive TSX bullets on deer unless the law like California forced me to, but for dependability on larger game like elk I feel the extra cost is worth the worth the dependability. Try some for a bit & see . Dom

The local GSC, Peregrine, Rhino premium bullets are all in the same class as the TSX and maybe one step ahead.

Of course acceptable bullet behaviour, when comparing the good quality cup and core designs is mostly a function of its kinetic energy value vs. weight at impact, the value of the heavier weights in each calibre is what drives the well earned popularity of Hornady Interbond, Federal Fusion, Hornady Interlock and the PMP Pro-Amm c&c bullets here.

South African hunters have never been enamoured by magnum cartridges (unless it said H&H behind the name) and light weight high velocity bullets here - the very reason why the .264 Win Mag and the .270W could never come close to the popularity of the .308W and the 30-06. Hunters do not use different bullet weights if they shoot wildebeest or impala during the same hunt - a 180 gr bullet will be used for both.

Since the advent of the GSC and Peregrine bullets there of course are a growing number (myself included) who use the premium stuff and lighter weights for two reasons, even in .303 Brit and .308W :

• Due to the 99-100% weight retention of GSC and Peregrine (and Rhino) bullets the retained impulse values are better and therefore penetration is better than even the best bonded bullets of heavier weight.

• Simple physics of material density and therefor bullet length demand that lighter bullets be used to maintain stability at that rifle's rifling twist rate.

GSC and Peregrine bullets are the reason why the .300WSM is the first "Magnum" which is gaining popularity and is not seen as the identifier of a visiting US hunter - and really because it does not have a belt at the bottom to assist in - or confuse - the issue of head spacing.

Users of premium bullets do not switch to c&c for deer size animals. One rifle, one bullet is the style.

I would very much like to try the GSC & Peregrine bullets. Maybe some day they will be available here in the US.

They in fact are available. Peregrines from Peregrine USA, Arizona, import them from the SA manufacturer and GS Custom USA manufactures them under license in Charleston SC.

I am about to fall asleep, shall post their email addresses and contact names tomorrow morning.

Oh they certainly are available. The Peregrines are imported from South Africa by Peregrine USA in New Mexico just south of you and GSC USA manufactures theirs under licence in Charleston, South Carolina.

I am thinking that although the boat tail is better BC wise, the TSX bullets are already long enough to cause case capacity issues. Just a thought that if the Peregrines are longer this problem will get worse?

It all depends whether the particular case has powder volume issues. .308W, 30-06, .303, 6.5x55, 7x64, 6.5-30'06 do not have if double base spherical propellant like the Somchem S321, S341, S361 is used. Mostly SAAMI throats of US made rifles of European chamberings have shorter than original spec throats and that is an issue. Using a proper Swedish Karl Gustaf action and barrel will prevent this, or CZ actions and a Douglas barrel and CIS spec reamer.

Although I do not like it, mere protrusion of the bullet past the neck-shoulder line is immaterial as it is there for only 1/10th of a thousandth of a second. When peak pressure occurs as the bullet is about 1.5" into the throat the geometric design of the case is long forgotten.

Tens of thousands of rifles the world over have been using Peregrine (and GSC) design bullets since the 1980s when The Powder Keg company in Johannesburg started producing Goodnel bullets. Local and foreign demand for the products continuously exceed SA and USA production ability. Rhino Bullets almost exclusively supplies the local PH market, particularly for .375 H&H.

For years I have only been using the Barnes 6.5 120gr TSX Boat Tail for elk. . I use it in my factory barreled Win. & Rem. 264 mag plus a Mc Gowen barreled 264 mag.Win action. Also use it in my E.R. Shaw barreled 6.5x55 Win action, Douglas barreled 6.5x308 Ruger , Savage 260 Rem, E.R.Shaw barreled 6.5WSM Ruger action & E.R.Shaw recently barreled 6.5-06 on a Ruger Hawkeye action . This is a long bullet for it's cal but has caused me no problem. I seat it at .050" off the lands in all cals. No problem . Get top velocities & very pleasing accuracy. I have been able to use the powder I felt worked best. Although I lean toward a 1/8 twist in 6.5 I have rifles in both 1/8 & 1/9 which deliver equal accuracy with this bullet.

Indeed - the Barnes name together with Goodnel has been the go to brand for premium bullets in South Africa until Peregrine, GSC, Rhino and Impala bullets became known.

The GSC drive band bullets are best loaded just touching the lands and the Peregrines have specific seating depths per bullet per cartridge suggested by the manufacturer. Here are contact addresses for Peregrine USA and GS Custom USA:

www.peregrinebullet.com (Contact Person: Hermann Weidemann) Elmarie@gscustomusa.com (Contact Person Elmarie)

If you do make contact please mention my name and give them my regards.

I shall assist you with load data using US propellants.

Thanks for the e-mail site Andries. I am going to try & get some bullets ( 6.5 ) to try out on my elk hunts this year. I will give them your regards. Dom

Required seating depth is governed by the rifle, or magazine not by the bullet manufacturer in all cases where you are trying to maximize velocity. Suffice it to say making a bullet long enough to touch the rifling almost guarantees it will foul the action. Except of course with a single shot rifle.

There are some unique abilities (even requirements) with very low friction bullets that practice has shown to favour.

I might try these peregrines in my single shot 35 Whelen or 45/70. Getting 2280 fps out of a 300g TSXFB did require me to go .01 from the lands in my double rifle - as did reaching 1850 fps with a Cast Tin / Lead 425g. My pressure limitation was 32,000 psi with the 45 70 double. But I am not fooling with those loads since it was hard enough to get regulation. I could play with the single shots though.

And if the requirements set by the bullet cannot be met by the rifle, well there are other bullets. I am quite satisfied by the performance of the Barnes bullets actually. However I have never shot a Buffalo or an Elephant so am not one to claim anything regarding them. From what I have read, the Barnes bullets do well with the big five though.

I checked Peregrine & GSC web sites. Bullet weight for bullet weight Peregrine bullets are almost double the price of Barnes & the GSC are well over double the price. Since I have never had a failure with a Barnes TSX I will have to give it some thought as I have an ample supply of Barnes. I guess shipping has added to their cost. Dom

I hear ya, Dom. I bought 50 of GSC 450 the flat heads and they ran $93 with shipping. Am thinking though, at the overall cost of Safari - the cost of the best bullets is well spent. It's defining the "best" bullet that is running the costs up though, heh. Right now I truly believe the Barnes Banded Solid is the best for my 458 Mag. (Were $100 a box of 20). They are fastest and hardest and weight is forward as intended. Problem is I have 19 factory rounds and cannot get more. Our wonderful ATF has decided I will be shooting through cop vests with my 458 Win Mag pistol, all sarcasm intended. Grr. So close up, the GSC are now second "best". After 50 yards that second best changes to the Barnes 450 TSXFB.

Dom: ¨I checked Peregrine & GSC web sites. Bullet weight for bullet weight Peregrine bullets are almost double the price of Barnes & the GSC are well over double the price. Since I have never had a failure with a Barnes TSX I will have to give it some thought as I have an ample supply of Barnes. I guess shipping has added to their cost. Dom¨

Indeed. But for the amount of shooting at actual animals the cost is spread over a long time. It took me exactly 7 bullets to do my load development AND sighting with my .303 and Peregrine 168gr VRG-3. I expect no more than 10 with the 140gr HV GSC I am getting, if that. My sons see no need to use anything else but the Hornady Interbond on big and small game.

There is little to choose between the different premium bullets brands. The choice really is between premium and good quality c&c.

The Rhino series found favour with PHs in .375 H&H and the Peregrines / GSC with DG hunters as well as meat hunters due to the impeccable wound channels and zero meat damage and small exit holes.

The Peregrines / GSC / Impala series have found big markets in Europe, and Peregrine / GSC in the USA, which warranted GSC to set up a USA production facility. Peregrine still imports their bullets from South Africa. Impala bullets are banned in the USA because BATF says they have "armor piercing ability"(!)