The Lott for sure for a wild bull - no doubt about that. That extra 210gr of mass when placed in the same proper spot as a 284gr considerably shortens the time of insecurity after the first shot. No two bulls ever act the same after being heart shot which is why one needs to reload immediately. Placed into the lung both the 9.3x62 and the Lott - or whatever - are equally useless and create a distinct liability.

Indiscriminate, non clinically-correct shots afterwards are just a waste of resources as he will not even know about those - much less so than a blue wildebeest which also becomes immune to imperfect shots. The main reason to not simply pump lead is you may need to reload when a life-saving shot is needed. Not one single bullet must be wasted on a non clinical shot - it is a dangerous habit displayed by visiting hunters.

Buffalo and lion hunting can become addictive because no two hunts are ever similar.

I shall shortly post some interesting photos here of where I plan to take you.

It is hardened, experienced hunters that use the 9.3x62. BUT: I do have an (added) challenging plan for you and that Whelen of yours in the wilds. Watch this space :-) .

Sorry to hear that. An agent might have smoothed things out some. I would not even think of entering Africa for that reason without the help of a local agent who cleared the way first (ergo you, Andries). It is really sad that the US is getting that way though, or at least heading in that direction because of all the illegal immigration of criminal elements.

So anyway, I feel I will have some opportunity to use those fantastic bullets you are coming out with, even if it's and Elk, Moose or Eland :) Or if the test succeeds, even a Cape Buffalo! I would rather be lugging around my Whelen than the Lott.

Yep, I know. I was on my way to a huge Texas ranch near San Antonio on invitation to advise them on the possibility of settling gemsbok, zebra, kudu, and giraffe. That was when I had a run in with the Border Control guy at Fort Worth who said my business visa does not allow for that and I said it exactly does - which is the reason Colorado Dept. of State allowed me to register two companies to do business. He then said those were probably illegal so I said that was BS. They declared me an illegal immigrant and deported me.

Even hunting an elk in Colorado is ridiculous for out of State hunters. Can fly here and hunt one kudu, one black wildebeest, one impala and one blesbok for the same cost.

There are African game here did you know? There are large private tracks of land dedicated to raising them and hunting them here in the mid west. The prices are outlandish, yet maybe they will come down as the herds increase. Maybe. It's far more economical to fly half way around the world to hunt them now.

frhunterwrote:

" When they get to the USA I will purchase some because there is nothing like it here now. I will also be sure to put the loads into Ammoguide which will get the attention of 35 Whelen users in the know. That's a small percentage of them, but word will get around to the Buffalo hunters."

I have no doubt that this 284gr bullet in either VRG-2 or 3 will make the .35 Whelen an excellent Alaskan all-rounder. There are no hard-skinned, tough boned animals there so the 1.5x calibre smooth mushroom expansion of the VRG-3 will be perfect for everything.

Thanks - you are correct. Indeed we thought that S355 will do it as I mentioned earlier. Had the Whelen been in use here then a double base propellant designated as 351 would have been developed

Usable case capacity for this bullet length: 58.417 gr

Load: 54gr of S355 for 102.5%

Maximum chamber pressure: 57,927 psi for muzzle pressure of 6,800 psi.

Muzzle Velocity : 2,380 ft/sec which is just past what I need for 96 Newton/sq.mm impulse to equal the 9.3x62.

For any cartridge / bullet calibre with good bullets, for maximum penetration at 60 yds the magic figure of 2,400 ft/sec always appears.

As an addendum it appears that 56.3g and 103% compressed S355 can get your bullet to 2411 fps and 57684 psi. Muzzle pressure is 7090 psi.

So perhaps you should give S355 a shot at this?

Hodgden CFE 223: Ratio of specific heat 1.23, burning rate factor Ba 0.5330.

COAL 3.34": With a .358 Peregrine 286g bullet extended to your bullet length:

H CFE223 will get my model of your bullet to 2442 fps at 57440 psi. BLC2 will get 2427 fps at 57,738 psi.

According to QL your S341 will reach 58, 642 psi to get 2400 fps with that mode.

RE 12 can only get 2335 fps at 57,796 psi

RE 15 however can get 2429 fps at 57,981 psi.

I trust the RE 15 model because it has proven very accurate with my 35 Whelen and the chronograph at various COAL. BLC2 is well modeled as well according to my chronograph unless the bullet is very close to the lands.. I have never chronographed the CFE 223 or the S341, so those numbers are the least certain.

BLC-2 is exactly like S341 which is why it does well with the lighter bullets but will over pressure on the 284gr. The demand is for peak pressure after about 1.26 inches of bullet travel, therefore the slightly slower RL12. IMR 4064 would have been ideal but is too bulky. I have no experience with CFE 223 but imagine it is much in the burn rate category of S341 and BLC-2.

I am actually using Re 15 that works really well with my Whelen and the 225g TSXFB. Hogden CFE 223 does very well also with the 250g. BLC2, very similar, got my 250g Speers up to nearly 2800fps!

CFE 223 will probably outdo Re12 with the 286g bullet.

The ideal US propellant for this bullet appears to be Reloader 12. IMR 4064 has the proper heat properties but it has become bulkier over years due to too much graphite, so compression will be unacceptable. Alliant, like Somchem uses chemicals to control burn rate, and only a little graphite for inhibition of static build up.

Because the particular case-calibre is totally absent out here there exists no perfect propellant for it. A conceptual "S351" double base spherical powder would have been ideal - as S341 is for the 9.3x62.

When they get to the USA I will purchase some because there is nothing like it here now. I will also be sure to put the loads into Ammoguide which will get the attention of 35 Whelen users in the know. That's a small percentage of them, but word will get around to the Buffalo hunters.

Back to the plans for the .35 Whelen on Cape buffalo:

Here is a more elegant calculation of relative penetration ability than my previous ideas:

To calculate the relative penetration impulse of the official minimum cartridge and bullet weight for dangerous game in South Africa, the 9.3x62:

• Bullet mass: 18.6g (286gr)

• Bullet retained diameter: 9.3 mm

• Bullet retained frontal area: 68 sq.mm

• Impact velocity at 50 yards: 700 m/sec

• Impact momentum: 13 kg.m/sec (13 N.s.)

• Time of change in momentum: 1/500 th sec.

• Impact impulse: (impact momentum x 500) = 13 N.s x 500 = 6 507 N.s

• Penetration force: (impact impulse ÷ frontal area) = (6,507 N.s. ÷ 68 mm2) = 96 Newton. This is the minimum allowed for dangerous game in S.A.

This bullet at this penetration impulse from the 9,3x62 is known to break through the humerus bone of a Cape buffalo, break through a rib, slice open the heart, possibly break through an opposite rib but often does not break the opposite humerus or shoulder joint. This performance is the very reason why it is approved as the minimum cartridge and calibre bullet for South African dangerous game.

.35 Whelen (9.1x63): The case capacity of the Whelen is slightly less than that of the 9,3x62 but the thermodynamics are close enough to make it a potential contender to be allowed to replace the latter as the minimum calibre allowed to hunt dangerous game with. To determine whether this completely unknown cartridge in South Africa would equal the 9.3x62 as the minimum suitable for dangerous game I back-engineered the above equations:

• To achieve 96 Newton penetration force onto the 65 sq.mm frontal area of the Whelen the bullet needs to have a 6 240 N.s impact impulse.

• To possess the 6 240 impact impulse the bullet must possess (6 240÷500) = 12.5 Kg.m/sec momentum.

• To obtain that momentum value a bullet of 18.5 g (284 gr) impacting at 680 m/sec (2,230 ft/sec) is required.

• That demands that the 18.5 g bullet must be launched at 723 m/s (2,370 ft/sec) from 50 yards away.

• To achieve this a muzzle pressure of 6 600 psi is required, which means a propellant which gives 57,800 psi peak pressure when the bullet has moved 1,26 inches from the case mouth must be used. The specific heat required for this performance is known, and the Somchem propellant meeting this is S355 with a 102.5% compressed load density.

Here is the new 284gr .358" Peregrine VRG-2/3 A&A (Africa & Alaska) bullet for the Whelen for this project - it will be available for export to the USA soon. The green lines are my modifications to the version-1 design. I may ask them to add yet another driving band in front and move the shoulder forward to the front vertical red line and retain the original frontal stagnation surface area. This will bring back the nose end to almost the original and save on case capacity and will bring the centre of mass even more forward. If I can get the compressed load down from 102.5% to 100% that will be perfect.

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fmhunter13, thanks for the information. Interesting idea I will certainly give it a try next time I use 30-006 brass.

Gladesman

I am talking about the stand alone Lee Crimper. It only works on correct length cases. Otherwise it crimps in the wrong place. With shorter brass it misses the case entirely. The method I described works because the two cases meet. The die will crimp just above the short case, which is at the upside down case. The bullet must travel freely into the bottom case so that's why it must have an open (fired) neck.

This works. I have been unable to get the Crimpers to crimp the 3030/375 Win cases, the

308/.358 Win cases or the 3006/35 Whelen cases in the right place any other way. Maybe there is another way I have not found.

Actually Nosler puts a 250g out at 2550 fps. That is over 60,000 PSI. Also there are loads in the load books at 60,000 or a tad more. I have loaded mine with three different 60,000 psi book loads and am running one right now. There are many who load their 35 Whelen to these levels, so I beg to differ, and there are also 200g loads running near 3000 fps. available. People here use their Whelens mainly with 200 and 225g bullets. Since that's what sells, that is what is produced. Most people actually use the more conservative factory ammo because it works just fine, and they don't want or need the Whelen at full capacity.