livefullest
Dec 10, 2017

My 7's

15 comments

 

To say that I really like and enjoy 7mm cartridges is a truism :)

A .280 Rem. in a Win. Model 70 (post 64 and an actual 1964 manufacture dated receiver) with a 25" Shilen #3 barrel profile, a 7mm Rem. Mag. in an Interarms/Zastava Mauser with a 24" Shilen #2 barrel profile, a 7mm WSM in a Savage with a 26" Criterion Varmint barrel profile, another 7mm Rem. Mag. in another Savage with a 26" Criterion Varmint barrel profile.

And now this one will be joining the lineup, a Charles Daly/Zastava Mauser in 7x64 Brenneke with a 26" #2 barrel profile. And with the exception of the Win. Model 70 I only use the Mauser(s) for hunting. The Savage's could be used for hunting easy enough but I've built them for long range precision shooting.

Andries
Dec 10, 2017

That is a pleasing line-up - but still a gap for either a Musgrave or BRNO ZKK 600 in 7x57...

 

I miss my Ruger M77 Mk. II .280 Remington.

 

Once you get that Zastava post some photos please.

livefullest
Dec 10, 2017Edited: Dec 16, 2017

It is not a 7x57 but I did own, and may soon own it again, a ZKK 601 in 243 Win.

There is a 7x57 in my future. I do not know what it will be or when but it is coming :)

I will post pictures of that Zastava soon after it arrives and I get replacement camera.

Andries
Dec 11, 2017

If that ZKK 601 had not been tampered with since you sold it you will again enjoy it. That one of my son shoots smaller than 3/4" groups off a field rest at 220 yards. Have not found any difference between a BRNO and the Musgraves regarding accuracy - and both have pressure points under the barrel and not free floating.

livefullest
Dec 16, 2017

Wow! I just located a CZ ZKK-600 7x57 for sale. I have sent the seller a couple of questions. We'll see where it goes from there.

Andries
Dec 17, 2017Edited: Dec 17, 2017

If I see that here for under $1,000 and the photos look good my name will be on it immediately - and if it is closer than 200 miles I shall drive out to look at it.

 

In the USA my first question would have been: "Did you put a hacksaw to the barrel"? And then: "Is the pop-up aperture sight still installed?"

 

A 24" barrelled (in fact 600mm) BRNO ZKK 601 with a 150 gr Peregrine at 2,750 ft/sec is an impressive performer on elk size game out to 300 yards. With a 168 gr Peregrine VRG-3 at 2,550 ft/sec the penetration through eland shoulder bone is impressive.

livefullest
Dec 17, 2017

This is a later model without the pop-up sight. No matter as my shooting now requires a scope beyond anything past 50, or less, yards.

$600 and some change is the asking price.

Andries
Dec 17, 2017

Rifles are expensive here and one reason why we hold onto them for four generations at least. I have not seen a ZKK 600 series that was built without he pop-up rear aperture sight.

 

 

 

 

 

Andries
Dec 17, 2017

It sure is a BRNO but I have not seen one like it before. Removing the varnish and spending good hand rubbed oil time on it will render it very nice. I would ask whether the under barrel pressure support is still intact. Like most European rifles we also do not really like free-floating barrels - in the end there is no accuracy difference between the two though.

livefullest
Dec 17, 2017

The CZ ZKK-601 .243 that I had, and hope to have again, was also without the rear pop-up peep.

No accuracy difference between a free or non floated BRNO barrel?

Andries
Dec 17, 2017

Indeed - no accuracy difference if the barrel-up pressure point is at the correct position and supplying the correct pressure. All European and South African made rifles sold here have the pressure point. Very rare to see a free floated barrel.

 

Every Musgrave rifle off the shelf is a better than 1/2 MOA shooter - no free floating but a pressure point. So is every European stocked SAKO, CZ 550 and every BRNO ZKK I have seen in my life.

 

Action bedding is a very rare thing out here too - perfectly de-stressed wood that makes perfect contact with the action with nothing added is the best. Musgrave lets the wood lie idle for 3-4 months after having cut the rough hollows before final inletting so that the wood can settle after the stresses of the hollowing.

 

Any new rifle off the shelf which does not shoot less than 1 MOA will be returned by the buyer for fixing, so local manufacturers take pride in their work and do not want to be named and shamed in the gun media .

livefullest
Dec 20, 2017

The 7x57 went to someone else. But I did get the 601 in .243 back.

I will be sending it out for some chamber work.

Andries
Dec 20, 2017

The BRNOs are just such pleasing rifles - never any mechanical or wood issues. The Eastern Europeans are very strict on themselves when it comes to quality materials and metallurgy.

 

The .243W is mostly a varmint chambering here and not really used for hunting edible game - the latter starts at 6.5mm calibre.

 

Do you simply fireform for the AI chamber?

livefullest
Dec 21, 2017

Yep that is all I will do to get the brass.

I never handloaded for this rifle when I owned it and never had a problem with it. But after seeing the brass that my friend and previous owner saved after shooting it I am surprised the brass wasn't sticking or the primers weren't popping/blowing. The chamber is that worn.

Regarding the BRNO's, well about the only thing I do not like is that the safety is backwards from any of my other bolt action rifles-I can live with that :)

livefullest
Dec 27, 2017

Just got in a box of 140 gr. and 175 gr Remington Core Lokt ammo for the Zastava. I got them from Selway Armory http://www.selwayarmory.com/remington-express-7x64mm-brenneke-175-gr-core-lokt-pointed-soft-point-box-of-20.html for $20.00 each box. I have bought ammo and even firearms from these folks. Never been surprised or disappointed.

They show six boxes of 175 gr left. I suppose I better get a couple more coming. I like the Remington Core Lokt ammo and the brass is pretty decent for reloading too.

New Posts
  • erich_33614
    Jan 28

    Please help me with a decision. After sitting in my stand last season and noticing my scope had got loose I decided I need to bring an iron sighted "backup" rifle with me in case something like that happens again. I could see banging my scope on something or falling on my rear and "adjusting" my scope. My first thought was a .30-30. Simple, reliable, a decent performer out to 150 yards and ammo is cheap. I thought then about a backup that I could use for larger North American game. My .30-06 will handle anything on the continent. I'm not so sure about .30-30. I've considered a number of calibers. The ones I really like (.35 Whelen, .444 Marlin, etc...) are either expensive rifles (I'm looking for a backup), ammo is hard to find or both. I've narrowed it down to .30-30, .35 Remingon and .45-70. I supect the readers or this site are familiar with the ballistics of these calibers so I won't bore you with a description. I'm aware that these are all short range cartridges; that's ok. I'm mostly hunting in thick forest. If you wanted a backup rifle for anything up to and including elk, which of these would you choose? I'm looking to keep my cost of a rifle low so please no $1000 wonder rifles. When I'm ready I already have my eye on a CZ in .375 H&H. Help me out please! Thanks.
  • Andries
    Jan 28

    Terry B. sent me the verbatim quoted note below from the USA. He is not a signed up member yet so I took the liberty to repeat his missive here (Terry was a member minutes after I had posted this...) : The 30-06 in Africa With the African hunting season coming on soon, I thought of this old story I had about what gun to take on a plains game trip. It actually started way back in 1960 with an article by a Dr. Wendell G. Swank from Michigan State College that was in the Sports Afield Gun Annual. He and a fellow doctor took their old pre-64 Winchester M 70 .30-06 Springfield’s with Sierra bullets to Uganda to harvest game for research. They did a fantastic job of taking pictures of the bullets recovered and details of each bullets performance. Not only did they take plains game normally associated with the .30-06 Springfield, but also took Hippo, Lion and even a Cape Buffalo. That article intrigued me so much that I still have an original copy and it prompted me to research the .30-06 Springfield performance ever since. My first “Deer” rifle was lever action .30-30 Winchester, but my second was a Remington pump action .30-06 Springfield, and I don’t think that in the past 50 plus years, there has ever been a time that I did not have at least one or two .30-06 Springfield rifles around. At first, I used factory Remington 180 grain RN Core Lokts and all the Deer I shot fell over just fine. Then as time progressed I took up reloading and since then have taken Deer, Elk, Moose, Caribou, Antelope and Mt Goat in North America with various bullets. I started out using the same 180 grain Sierra bullets Dr. Swank used and eventually tried just about every bullet and powder combo I could come up with and eventually ended up using mostly 180 grain Nosler Partitions. During the next 30+ years, I took the .30-06 Springfield to Africa with me several times as it was my intention to field test as many bullets as I could, and here is a list of the bullets tested there: 180 gr Hornady Spire Point FB & BT 180 gr Speer Hot Core 190 gr Hornady Spire Point BT 180 gr Speer SP BT 220 gr Hornady RN 220 gr Sierra RN 180 gr Remington Core-Lokt Ultra 165 gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw 180 gr Nosler Partition 180 gr Speer Mag Tips 180 gr Remington RN Core Lokt 150 gr Barnes TSX & TTSX 180 gr Speer Deep Curl 165 gr Hornady GMX 180 gr Nosler AccuBond 168 gr Barnes TSX & TTSX 180 gr Federal Fusion 180 gr Barnes TSX & TTSX 180 gr Federal Tipped TBBC 180 gr Sierra SP BT & Flat Base 200 gr Nosler Partitions 150 gr Hornady SP Each of the above-mentioned bullets has its own distinctive characteristic performance. The typical soft point bullets all seem to kill about the same, but the premium bonded core or monolithic bullets give much more dependable penetration. On a recent trip, I shot six Blesbok with six different bullets and found that it made no difference at all. Each was shot about the same distance and they were all about the same broadside lung shots. Every bullet gave complete penetration and each animal rarely went more than a few yards before going down. If you were to make me choose any one of the “common” lead cup and core bullets to use from now on, my choice is surely going to surprise you as I’d take the 220 grain Nosler Partition as my first choice and the 220 grain Sierra RN next. Those two bullets will almost always penetrate completely and leave a nice exit hole. They will not give you those instant kills of high speed bullets, and seldom will the animals drop at the shot, but they will only go a few yards before expiring. Ya, Ya, I can see the readers jumping up a down about the “rainbow” trajectory of those bullets. Now just a minute, with the 220 grain Partition at 2400 fps muzzle velocity that is zeroed 2.9” high at 100 yards, it is then dead on at 200 yards. The 180 grain Nosler Partition at 2700 fps zeroed 2” high at 100 yards is dead on at 200 yards, so no big deal. I’m being conservative on my 220 grain velocities at 2,400 fps as the Nosler Reloading Guide #4 page 329 shows loads up to 2,602 fps. For most shooters 200 yards is plenty far to shoot anyway, and if you can crawl up to 200 you will never know the difference in trajectory, but you will see a difference in performance on the game as those 220 grain bullets really put the hammer down. I remember an outfitter from Zimbabwe that took some 220 grain Sierra RN bullets home to try. When I met up with him the next year, he said they were the most dependable bullet in the .30-06 Springfield he had ever used. As you can well imagine this whole bullet subject can be cussed and discussed much like religion and politics long into the night, but the truth will end up being that the .30-06 Springfield with well placed shots, will take any plains game Africa has to offer. Another wonderful thing about the .30-06 Springfield is that virtually anywhere in the world you go, and should you lose your luggage and ammo, you can usually scare up a box of ammo somewhere. It may not be your first choice of brand or bullet, but it beats having none at all. Not having or being able to find ammo is my number one contention with the new RUM and WSM cartridges. Unless the fellow that hunted there ahead of you left his ammo, you don’t have a snow ball’s chance of buying any abroad. We have seen great advances in bullet construction and technology with John Nosler’s first Partition bullets all the way thru the Jack Carter’s Trophy Bonded Bear Claws, and now unto the Hornady GMX and Barnes TSX lead free bullets. As usually, it all boils down to “Bullet Placement”. If you do your job the old “ought six” will do its part. Feel free to write Terry anytime about bullet choices at TBlauwkamp@superior-sales.com
  • Andries
    Jan 21, 2018

    There is an established confidence that ALL 7mm and .30" calibre cartridges will shoot to the same point of impact out to 250 yards and kill exactly the same with similar weight bullets. Because the 30-06 and 7mm Rem Magnum and 8x57 are ballistic triplets, and the .308W and .270W and 7x57 are ballistic triplets, and the 6.5x55 Swede, 6.5x57 Mauser, 6.5x58 Portuguese are ballistic triplets, and because all of these 9 cartridges shoot to within less than 1/4 MOA from one another when zeroed at 200 yards, the actual calibre designation has very little to do with the way South African hunters choose their hunting rifles. The 7mm Rem Magnum is not very popular here because despite its bigger case capacity it merely equals the 30-06 in performance. On top of that try and explain the reason for the presence of the belt on the case and South African hunters are not convinced that it has any advantage - in fact the opposite - and they just stay with their 30-06s. The .270W can not handle the heavier bullets we prefer for big game, so the 7x64 Brenneke and .308W outshines it on big game - and with 150gr bullets and lighter the .270W merely equals the .308W. So the .308W has become the most sought after calibre for big and smaller game. The rifle brand name is the first driver in getting the buyer's interest - but when paying the money even that is lower than the appealing appearance the rifle will have regarding a pleasing, understated profile, good wood, and neat wood to metal appearance, and the ease of shouldering, and immediate and instinctive line up. Only then will the buyer look at the calibre designation. He may beforehand have decided on whether he wanted a 6.5 mm or larger - but the choice between a 7mm and .30" and particularly amongst the ballistic similar chamberings will be made by the individual RIFLE as there is no difference in killing ability as long as any one of the 7mm chamberings allows for bullets in the 170+ gr weight class. The new (since the 1970s) standard against which all hunting cartridges have been measured regarding big game killing ability is the 308W. (Of course the real standard is the 30-06 or 8x57 which is 100% capable of killing even the 2,000 lb eland under all conditions - but the .308W is far by far the most popular big game hunting cartridge in South Africa). There are very few .338" calibres around and virtually no .35s because nothing " more powerful " than the 308W is needed to kill any of the 12 size elk big game with a single heart shot. The .338" / .35" is a true American want-but-not-needed calibre, which is a concept we do not fully understand in Africa. Having a non dangerous game rifle which merely sends its fully penetrating bullet further into the unknown beyond the shot animal than the .308W already does is seen as kind of an anomaly. If a .308W 180 gr bonded core bullet has a perfect penetration impulse to penetrate through the shoulders of all the 12 elk size big game animals then the next step up is for a rifle to kill buffalo or elephant - which is the .375 H&H - so there is no requirement in Africa for a rifle in between the ballistic similar group of the 7x57 / .308W / 30-06 / .303 Brit / 7x64 Brenneke and then, for dangerous game, the .375 H&H / .416 Rigby / .458 Lott / .458 3" Express / .458 Sabi. Regarding brand names - European made rifles without a doubt rule the roost - SAKO, BRNO, CZ 550, and of course the locally manufactured Musgraves and custom built rifles on Mauser actions. There are many South African hunters who only own one rifle and that invariably is a BRNO / CZ 550 / Mauser / SAKO / Musgrave in .308W. He will in all likelyhood use only one bullet weight in it all the time which will depend on the area where he hunts - the distances that he shoots at will determine bullet weight - whether he hunts wildebeest or impala. The size of the animal he hunts is not the determining factor. Always using only one bullet weight allows the hunter to intimately know the trajectory out to say 300 yards. In the northern part of the country where I live and where shooting distances are mostly between 80 - 150 and rarely 200 yards it will be 180 gr, and on the open plains with shooting distances of 200-300 yards it will be a 165-150 gr bullet of premium construction. On shooting distances: There still is a strong ethic here that if your stalking skills are such that you are unable to get closer than 300 yards then you need to practice more. The culture we foster in the hunter education programmes (the hunting rifle shooting competitions) is that there should never ever be a reason to shoot at an animal beyond 300 yards. If the local hunter can not get closer than 300 yards it more than likely means that game is too scarce in his area to be hunted.

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