bullet.behaviour
May 22, 2017

Lee Enfield .303s, Trigger and Safety Safety Principles

11 comments

Edited: May 23, 2017

Transferred from .303 thread:

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Michael wrote: "I have had a couple of the 303's and also a 308 Lee Enfield. What I have found is that the chambers are relatively loose because they had to fire muddy. That combined with the rear only bolt lugs, well none were all that accurate and I thought 2 MOA shooting was on a really good day. The cartridge itself is fine. I did not experiment with the 303's and simply shot the military ammo at paper. I did kill a 320 lb hog with one and ironically it was a perfect heart shot. All that said I decided to do my best with the 308 version made in India. So I fired a bunch of Winchester Supremes I had stockpiled and kept the brass. Then I neck sized those and used the most accurate loading with which I had garnered about 3 MOA. Well, eureka. I was now down to 1 MOA because the nickel plated cases were sized for the chamber of that specific rifle. Still have that one and I hunt with it occasionally just for the fun of it."

Andries:

Michael, like many of my contemporary men I have been hunting with a Lee Enfield .303 since I could carry it for a morning and shoot it steady off-hand - which is the test we use before allowing boys to hunt with any rifle. In ballistics and on-game performance there is no difference between the .303 and the .308W, using similar weight bullets. I have a good looking, very lightweight Lee Enfield which is at least a 1 MOA shooter after I had done a proper accurising job on it. Accurising a Lee Enfield action is 9 steps to pshycological counseling if you do not know the unique steps in a definitive order to take. On the other forum I advised a rifle builder and bullet maker and in one step he shrunk his 100 yard groups from 3" to 1.5"

The .303 Mk. VII bullet is the most accurate 1,000 yrd military round ever. It is useless for big game hunting due to the woodfiller / aluminium in the FMJ nose section and the severe rearward centre of mass which causes it to tumble on impact - a meat spoiler by design.

For < 200 yard hunting of big and small game I use Peregrine 168gr VRG-3 semi flat point bullets at 2,600 ft/sec in mine, and 150 gr VRG-4 for plains game at 2,750 ft.sec.

Here is mine:

 

With 215 gr solid shank bullets penetration of the .303 equals that of the legendary 7x57 with 175gr similar bullets, equalling the 30-06 with 200 gr. The South African built military target rifle was a .308 W chambered Musgrave barrel on the No. 4 Mk.1 Lee Enfield. My Air Force issued piece had logged 18,800 7.62x51 NATO rds when I finally bought my own Musgrave RSA target rifle. That Lee Enfield and got me into the Air Force National Bisley team.

In my opinion the No.4 Mk. 1&2 actions are anytime as strong as any Mauser..

 

recoiljunky: I dearly want an SMLE rifle as they intrigue me. Calibre wouldn't matter a wit, but a 303 would fit nicely in my gun collection.

 

bullet.behaviour: RJ, I would look for a Savage built No. 4 Mk.I or II. Friend Tom is the expert to advise you on that. The best barrels were made by Lithgow in Australia and of course later by Musgrave here in South Africa.

The ex Santa Fe reworked No.4 Mk. IIs look fairly good but the receivers have been butchered and front stock inletting are mostly done very poorly. The stock on my local Enfield shown above is from a Santa Fe I bought there and it needed days of outside work and days of carefully building up the inside contact surfaces for the receiver metal. In time read the web page in this site on the .303 Lee Enfield:

http://realtimedata.wixsite.com/bullet-behaviour/the-lee-enfield-303

The SMLE (what is called the "Bulldog Lee Enfield" here because of the flat front end as opposed to the extending barrel beyond the front stock of the No.4 series) has a real pencil barrel which needs a factory expert "packer". It has to have the precise thickness and position of cork sheeting both underneath and on top of the barrel for accuracy (thence the term "packing" and not inletting. Even the No. 4s with the thicker barrels I have seen in the USA have these removed because of the US shooters' believe in free floating. None of the Musgraves, BRNOs, Lee Enfields in my family has or has ever had a free floated barrel and all are .5 MOA shooters.

Pity most of our stuff have been moved from Craig but I suggest you arrange with T. to bring the one with the rear peep sight so you can shoot it right there. US ammunition is severely underloaded (47,000psi) due to SAAMI silliness but a box of Herters or Privy Partizan will still give you an idea. As mentioned above I handload 168gr Peregrines to 2,600 ft/sec and only beause I have an accuracy node there. 2,700 ft/sec would be 61,000 psi which is still below the 62,000 my Bisley Enfield had experienced in excess of 18,000 times.

Some reworked Lee Enfields from the internet:

 

 

 

A No.4 Mk.IV .308W / 7.62x51 NATO above

 

A No.4 Mk.II .308W / 7.62x51 NATO above

 

All .308W / 7.62x51 NATO

 

Africa .303 sniper: "Which one, seh?" frhunter13: Hey that monkey shot is hoot!

 

I still have two of the 303 Enfields. One is a No.1 Mark 3 that shoots low and left. It is unissued and rarely fired. It's a wall hangar. The other was made by Savage here in the USA. It is a No. 4 Mark 1 stamped "US Property". It shoots rather well if I make the ammo. The US rifles have a second bolt lug up front I believe, and I hear the Brits did not like them because it is much harder to get the bolt out of the action and back in. It has not been "Accurized", or so attempted - not wishing myself to require a lobotomy. Replacing the military barrel to me is not "Accurizing", but customizing. Properly done and aligned would be the only way I know of to cure a sloppy chamber, other than fire forming cases.

Those are some beautifully done rifles in those pictures though.

On a different note, I find the Enfield bolt throw and action more favorable than the Mauser, and I like the detachable magazine. So I am guessing a properly modified Enfield could be one I like BETTER than a Mauser. To note, I did have a 45/70 that was a No4. Mark 1 conversion rifle. It was a beauty and a very good shooter. That's where I got my 458 Win Magnum Mauser actually, as it was a trade for my Enfield 45/70.

 

frhunter13: Actually my Savage 303 Enfield is a No4 Mark II, not a Mark I. I have target peep for it but never put it on.

 

frhunter13: Ack. Just went and took it down off the wall. It IS a Savage made No. 4 Mark I after all, heh. I have not fired it in ten years.

 

bullet.behaviour: My No.4 Mk.I is a Savage with "US Property" on the side. That inscription was put there for political reasons.

You are absolutely correct, Michael - THE quickest, safest DG rifle is a control feed action with cock-on-close. The very reason the Pattern 14/17 action is so popular here for conversion to 9.3x62 / .375 H&H / .458 Lott.

I remember being skewered by a poster on the other forum for saying that the Lee Enfield action is controlled feed. He did not own one but was an "expert".

Recoil Junky knows exactly what the caption under the baboon photo is about... I trust he was not having his coffee at his computer.

Michael, that left and low group is due to the two rear lobes of the front stock not having equal pressure on the front of the butt socket, and also the the two narrow "draws" inside rear. Is your Enfield still in military wood? If it is, take the wood off and soak it for two weeks in RAW linseed oil - not the fake "boiled" stuff they sell there. Over time the wood dries and shrinks.

 

Note exactly where the under and over-barrel pressure corks are and re-install them as they were. Once out of the oil repeatedly wipe every last trace of surface oil from the stock inside and outside before reassembling.

 

recoiljunky: I just like 'em 'cause they look cool. So tell me more about the detachable box magazine? And yes I will get with Tommy when I see him at work.

By 14/17 do you mean one like my 1917 Enfield? I could never see why cock on closing was such a bad thing, except at 12 I had a hard time closing the bolt.

 

frhunter13: Yes the No.3 Mark 1 Lee Enfield is exactly as it ever was. Totally Mil Spec. never altered and with the very bayonet that was always with it. That's why it is a wall hangar, and I don't really care a whit how it shoots, heh. It is simply fun to look at! I did take it to shoot one day though. Several of my wall hangers I have never shot, and probably never will.

Recoil, I was talking about the Lee Enfields, not the P's. The P's are quite heavy to me, and the safety is atrocious. I got rid of my P17 3006 custom sporter because taking the rifle off safe was a darn noisy affair!

 

frhunter13: By the way. I still get my numbers and marks mixed up on those Lee Enfields. How confusing.

 

bullet.behaviour: "I still get my numbers and marks mixed up on those Lee Enfields. How confusing." That's the Brits.... but they understood it and that was all that was needed. :-)

RJ, indeed, I referred to the P14 .303 and P17 30-06. We never see any P17s here but the P14 action is popular for conversion to DG actions. The belly bulge can be removed.

 

The Lee Magazine holds ten rounds - I also have a five-round box which gives me a little grief feeding the first and last round, must still study it carefully to identify the issue.

You never need to remove the magazine as it loads easily by hand from the top. It is handy though for rendering the rifle safe quickly when approaching the vehicle after a hunt.

Michael, my P14 safety is as smooth and as quiet as they come.

 

bullet.behaviour: By the way, RJ, when you have time, could you post that report on the hand-held Lee press on the forum here? Under Random Reports; real photos if possible - I distrust that Photobucket.

 

frhunter13: Yah. Mine was a P17, with a loud click as it went from safe to fire. Never knew if it was unusual, but I could not put up with it after it spooked my quarry once. The SMLE's were nice and quiet, as is that Savage.

 

bullet.behaviour: Many a kudu has been lost due to a loud safety. Certainly there was an issue with yours. I do not trust a safety in any rifle except the Enfield and the P14. Nothing wrong with a Mauser safety but for noise sake when the hunter with me has a Mauser action I insist he carries it with the bolt in the half-cock indent. Pushing the bolt down slowly makes for a quiet cocking action.

All Mauser actions are in fact cock-on-closing too despite what gun buffs say on forums: lifting the bolt merely tensions the spring an initial distance. Closing the bolt cocks the trigger and sear. When carried with the tensioning cam in the notch and pulling the trigger the cam is merely disengaged and the spring releases the bolt.

 

frhunter13: Can't you get a fire out of battery in that position? If it does go off your bolt becomes a bullet.

 

bullet.behaviour: No. Should there be an inadvertent pressure on the trigger then as the bolt handle moves down it releases the firing pin spring tension rather slowly and by the time the firing pin is ahead the lugs have locked.

 

bullet.behaviour: BTW, what is the trigger pressure on your Whelen?

 

frhunter13: The trigger pull on the Whelen is quite low, around a pound - no more. I don't have a gauge. It's not as light as after a set trigger is engaged though. The 458 and the 375HH are the same, about one pound.

 

I have one rifle with a set trigger which you must not engage unless you are ready for the gun to fire. At that point if you even touch the main trigger it fires. The set trigger is about 9 pounds on that one. The Whelen is not even close to that sensitivity.

Another of my rifles is a straight pull Mannlicher 8x56R. That one is really spooky cause I have no idea how it works and locks the bolt. The lugs must be engaged by the trigger I am guessing.

I would have to experiment some before I would trust a mauser that is not in full battery. It might open up and crap get into action as well, but I really have NO experience doing that!

 

bullet.behaviour: Geez that is LIGHT - 1 lb. All my rifles are 4 lbs except the .303 which is 3 lb.

In the hunting rifle shooting competitions the lightest allowed is 3 lbs and each rifle is tested when registering.

 

frhunter13: I was a Confederate reinactor for a few years. My cap and ball rifle was limited and measured to four lbs for our competitions. Other than that I only have two rifles that have heavy triggers. The 358 Browning BLR is 7lbs and my MP221 45/70 double is 9 lbs. Most of my other hunting rifles are in the 1 to 2 lb range with a couple in the 4 lb range like my Winchester lever guns.

The trigger in the Whelen and my 375HH are adjustable down to 4 oz, but I don't like them that light.

That double set trigger rifle needs great care. Once you set it, if you even touch the firing trigger you have launched that 485g 50 cal Maxiball at 1500 fps out of a 28" barrel in a cloud of black powder smoke. This will pick a deer up off its hooves, as I have witnessed.

 

bullet.behaviour: Gee, that Confederate replay appeals to me.

 

Too light is too light when under pressure of an off-hand shot where there is a 4 seconds window from shouldering the rifle to bolting by the beast. Of course not all shots are like that - but with an old, big kudu bull who has survived because he is good, that often happens.

No doubt you know your rifle well, but I would be uncomfortable if I had to carry and shoot such a light trigger. :) Not at all familiar to me.

t7562502007
May 23, 2017

An understanding of Lee Enfield numbers & marks, excepting the P14/M1917, can be fairly simple - possibly easier than understanding the street layout in Salt Lake City.

 

Starting with the #1 Mk 3 also called SMLE.

This model, in military dress, has a full length forearm to the muzzle, barrel mounted rear sight, a radiused left receiver wall, and a relatively thin barrel. Bolt heads are removable to overcome headspace issues, yet the bolt heads are not identified in any way for length.

 

Next come the #4 series.

Adopted in 1939 this is the best and last general design of the series. A flat (non radiused) left receiver wall, heavier barrel, & receiver mounted rear aperture sight. Unlike the #1, the barrel protrudes a bit in front of the forearm. The bolt heads on the #4 are also removable yet are stamped 0 thru 3 for length. The #4 can be found with anywhere from 2 to 6 barrel grooves.

 

#4 mk 1 Made by various British wartime makers

#4 mk 1* Made in North America by Savage in the US and Long

Branch in Canada. Initially made as the British version and

later manufacturing shortcuts were introduced

#4 mk 2 The post war variation with better fit and finish. The major

change was having the trigger pinned to the receiver

instead of attached to the trigger guard as the #4 mk1s

were. The best of the #4s and can be found still in the

original armory wrapping. Made only by Fazarkerley

Royal Ordnance Factory (ROF).

#4 mk 1/2 These are British made #4 mk1s brought up to #4 mk2

specs

#4 mk 1/3 These are North American #4 mk1* rifles brought up to

#4 mk 2 specs.

 

There were #4 mk2 rifles made in Pakistan on the old Fazarkerley machinery after production ceased there.

 

The #5 mk 1 was the shortened and lightened #4 with a cone flash suppressor. Usually called the "Jungle Carbine" in the US, being named that by a surplus arms dealer who made many up from the #4s.

 

I have intentionally left out the Long Lees and various late sniper/match rifles. To note, the M10s pictured above are a recent incarnation from Vietnam (I believe) and are not held in very high regards.

 

The last to officially use the Lee Enfield in a military capacity as issued weapons were the Canadian Rangers who began to have their weapons replaced in 2015 by a Tikka design.

 

 

t7562502007
May 24, 2017

Oh, I forgot about the Indian rifles.

Rifle 7.62mm 2a or 2a1 known as the Ishapore 2a or 2a1. This is a SMLE type designed to fire the 7.62x51 (not 308W) with more modern metallurgy being designed in the early 60s. Stamped RFI for Rifle Factory Ishapore.

 

I have also omitted the Australian Lithgows too. These were a SMLE made up until the early 50s. Some utilized a heavy barrel and are more sought after than a standard run of the mill.

 

And one more thing......The AIA - Australian International Arms - commercial M10 and what they call #4 mk4. I'll leave the following link to Steve Redgwell's (probably the top 303 guru in North America) site http://www.303british.com/id74.html

bullet.behaviour
May 24, 2017Edited: May 24, 2017

Thank you Tom - as always showing the easy way. An expert who does see the wood and is not blinded by the trees!

 

I still could not locate the South Africa compiled and published work on the Lee Metford and Lee Enfield .303. One can only trust that they are proceeding with a repeat print because the first run was swept up before the last book was assembled.

 

Need to ask Frhunter a question about an observation he made about an extra lug on the bolt.

t7562502007
May 24, 2017

Beginning with Lee's first production design in 1879 thru the final use by the Canadian Rangers in 2015, that's 136 years of that (although modified over time) basic type. Another Scot.

bullet.behaviour
May 24, 2017

Yep, a Scot. James Paris Lee is claimed to be a Canadian by the Canadians, an American by (some) Americans and an Englishman (by some Americans).

 

I have read somewhere that although the decision was made in 2015 about the Tikka for the Canadian Rangers, by the end of 2016 the .303 was not actually replaced yet.

t7562502007
May 24, 2017

137+ years

t7562502007
May 24, 2017

Like my wife. Everyone here thinks she is American, born a Scot, she reckons she is British.

Go figure.

t7562502007
Jun 8, 2017

Steve Redgwell is a retired Canadian military armorer and over the years has compiled a trove of information on the Lee Enfield. He has published some books about this rifle and the rounds ( there are 2) they were originally chambered in.

Below is a link to his site and the article that I particularly like.

http://www.303british.com/id69.html

t7562502007
Jun 8, 2017Edited: Jun 9, 2017

fr, the North American #4s don't have an extra bolt lug, however the procedure to remove the bolt is slightly different. On all #4s the bolt head has a groove that a track in the right side of the receiver rides in. On the British made #4s and early North American rifles, one depresses a small tab on the right rear of the receiver, pulls the bolt back and releases the tab. Now that will allow the bolt head to rotate to the left and the bolt can be removed. On the North American #4s beginning in about 1942 there is a cut in the track on the right side of the receiver where one rotates the bolt head to the left in that cut allowing the bolt to be removed without the extra machining for that little tab. Bolts will work in both types.

 

 

Andries
Jun 9, 2017Edited: Jun 9, 2017

My 1942 Savage No.4 still has the plunger I need to depress to allow the bolt head to be rotated for removal.

 

Yes, there is no extra lug on US manufactured Lee Enfield bolts. I was going to ask fnhunter to send me a photograph of his as it may show some unique feature applied by an individual gunsmith.

t7562502007
Jun 9, 2017

I figured yours for an early Savage from the round cocking piece in the photo.

New Posts
  • Andries
    Mar 19, 2018

    Tomorrow I am going to drive just 70 miles to look at a bolt action .375 H&H built by the company in 1995 I think. It belongs to a lady guide who worked for a safari company in the province of Natal and she had bought it from an H&H group that had hunted with them nineteen years ago. I need to inspect the correctness of her words to me that she had never fired more than five shots with it, and that it was brand new when brought to South Africa by H&H in 1999. Depending on our negotiations I may be the owner of an original Holland and Holland .375 end of tomorrow.
  • Andries
    Jan 21, 2018

    The Mauser And Its Derivatives and The Lee Enfield And Its Different Models. (Culled from Erich's Reflections On The Past Hunting Season ). I transferred the following comments from Erich's original here as we have been overburdening his very nice thread; and because the subject is not nearly exhausted: Edited: 4 days ago In fact the Mausers the Boers ordered were all 1895 having a stacked magazine, but based on the 1893. The only Spanish Mauser was the 1892. Model 1895s were produced by Mauser Waffenfabrik. the Ludwig Loewe Company (the corporate owners of Mauser). In 1896 the Boers ordered 70,000 Mauser rifles and carbines from Ludwig Loewe, later known as Deutsche Waffen-und Munitionfabriken (DWM), about 55,000 of which were delivered. Despite being called the “Model 1895″ by most sources, the vast majority of these used the earlier 1893-style receiver and bolt, and in official documents they are often referred to as “Model 93/95 Mausers.” They differed from the Spanish model primarily in the style of the rear sight.Rifles ordered by the Orange Free State were marked “O.V.S” above the serial number and directly below it on the stock, while those delivered to the Transvaal had an A, B, or C letter prefix preceding their serial number. Because of manufacturing dates stamped on their receivers, South African sources often refer to them as “Model 1896″ or “Model 1897″ Mausers. On demand by Genl. Christiaan de Wet some of the last Mauser rifles delivered to the Boers were equipped with turned-down bolt handles to make them more suitable for use by mounted men. The ones that were not had the bolt handles turned down by the Boer gunsmiths. DWM re-marked many undelivered rifles and sold them to Chile, and that is why some rifles from Chile show the OVS inscription. There is no weak 1893-1896 action - many are still in use in South Africa managing all kinds of modern high pressure cartridges. There is no stretching or bolt compression. The only disadvantage it has compared to the '98 is the lack of a gas shield at the rear in case of a blown primer. That is easily fixed with a chamber outlet hole. On the Enfield groove diameter: I have never seen any Enfield barrel here that had anything other than maximum .312" and in fact most are .311". Because of the drive bands my Peregrine bullets are .312" but the PMP manufactured bullets are all .311". The South African manufactured .303 PMP with .311" Mk. VII bullets was the only ammunition allowed at all the Bisley 100-1000 yard international events. In fact the present event shot with 7.62x51 Nato is also solely supplied by PMP. There is no difference in the Savage made bolt and action to the Lee Enfield No. 4 design. In time I shall post a photo of the bolt of my Enfield and I am sure Michael will find that it is exactly similar to his. Should there be any change it certainly is not from Savage. Andries : 4 days ago Michael wrote: "My Gunsmith was aware that it was not case hardened steel and cautioned me to the effect that even though he did it, the receiver might stretch." I assume a case of American vs. European terminology as used by the gunsmith: Case hardening is a unique American process. No European receiver or bolt, from the beginning to the present has ever been "case hardened". They were all perfectly heat treated though. The German heat treatment process has always been done impeccably correctly and even though the 1894/5 were not as hard as the '98 these actions show no plastic deformation in the many conversions to high pressure cartridges done here. Having said that: the even more fussy Swedes did not trust the Germans with the 1896 Carl Gustaf 6.5x55 built under contract and supplied them with Swedish steel! frhunter13 4 days ago The gunsmith's name was "Swamp Scott", a machinist by trade, who was well aware of the various steels, heat treatment procedures and the history of the Mauser. Me being rather uneducated in that department, he no doubt simplified. Unfortunately, he was killed while saving his niece from a rip-tide in a flash flood about ten years ago. He was one of the last real gunsmiths in our area, there being only one other capable of building a rifle from the receiver while cutting and sighting a new Vanadium Steel barrel. They are all gone now. The rifle I am speaking about does have something like O.V.S. stamped quite deeply on the receiver. When I get back home I will take a look. It is an extremely light 7x57, with a Duracoat type coating and a camo stock. Andries 4 days ago OVS? Then THAT 7x57 is a shooter with a grand history, Michael. With 170 gr PMP Pro-Amm factory ammunition it will completely penetrate every wildebeest, kudu, zebra, oryx this side of 150 yards. frhunter13 4 days ago Edited: 4 days ago Well the 7x57JS has the turn down bolt and was (still is) a carbine, but no ovs. Serial No. is C2308, a very early one I expect. Guess I should have kept it in original configuration. All other markings have been filled by the very hard micro-coating. It's not really actual Duracoat paint. The new barrel had no blueing, so I had the barrel and receiver sand blasted and micro-coated sniper grey. The cammo is also dark grey with leaf prints. It is purely a hunter / shooter now. Andreis has seen the Ruger I have that was coated in this fashion. Andries I know the bolt is the same (well the length of the bolt face maybe not), however I believe the receiver cut to remove (turn it for removal) it is in a different place on the Savage. I know for certain it was different to remove the bolt on that older (I think No. 1 Mark I or at least it looked like also a Lee Metford but was not) and the No. 1 Mark III that I have - than the Savage. That is confusing, I know. That's kinda why I love the Enfields. I even had a P17 Enfield that was in 30-06! t7562502007 4 days ago. The early Savages had the standard #4 plunger at the right rear of the receiver for bolt removal. To cut production time Savage asked for some modifications, the change to the slot in the right receiver rail instead of the plunger was one of them. Long Branch made the exact same modified rifle. frhunter13 4 days ago Exactly so, t75. Mine is in the receiver rail. Andries 2 days ago. I think I have seen the later Long Branch / Savage bolt with the larger bodied bolt head for better finger hold which has a sear which simply clicks over the rail, saving the need of a certain level of two-hand dexterity. No need to first push the plunger down and retract the bolt so that the bolt head can be rotated to the vertical for bolt removal. It was only the later 7.92x57 Mauser that carried the "JS" suffix to distinguish it from the standard 1888 model 227 gr round nose bullet and the case having a slightly larger shoulder diameter. In fact the letters were "IS" - but JS came about from wrong interpretation by English speaking countries of the Gothic style of the letter "I" used by CIP. The "S" indicated "Spitzergeschoss" (pointed bullet" as opposed to round nose bullet). The 7x57 never carried the "JS" nomenclature as it never has a pointed bullet but the 173 gr round nose. Michael's perfect "Africa rifle" in my opinion is perfect in more than one way: First, the 30-06 is the absolute perfect cartridge for the 12 elk size big game with bullet weights in the 165-180gr category. Secondly, the 30-06 is the identical ballistic twin of the 7.92x62mm Mauser. The Ruger M77 action is simply the American Mauser - an improvement on the 1903 Springfiled action in terms of simplicity. Michael - if the Chilean engraving is on your 7x57 rifle then it was on route to South Africa via Chile, but that vessel got impounded and found its way to the US. Have a look at the gas escape port in the chamber - that may give us further clues as to its origins. t7562502007 a day ago Edited: a day ago The ship(s) that had the cargo of Mausers was not let thru the British blockade. The rifles were returned to Germany then resold to Chile (with the Chilean crest on the receivers now) where most remained in storage until the 50s & 60s when they were sold to US surplus firearms dealers. Yes, it was DWM and they got lucky with a resale and not having thousands of them in the warehouse. And in my memory somewhere I seem to recall that some did have the OVS and the odd Chilean 93 has been seen with OVS. The 2 at this house do not. Oh, here is a link of the Savage and Long Branch bolt removal cut in the right rail. Andries, I think you might be thinking of the #1 mk 3 bolt head. It was oversize. http://enfielditis.net/SAVAGEPAGE.htm Andries 20 hours ago Ahhh...thank you Tom - I learned something new about the shipments meant for Genl. Christiaan de Wet that had the OVS stamp and then the Chilean crest of arms added. Those shipments are a fascinating research in itself with quite a few twists in the tail or tale. I shall check out that mod asked for by Savage and then put out to Long Branch too by the Brits. I am going to remove a 1/4 spiral from the plunger spring in my action. The plunger is too tiny and the spring quite stiff to compress. frhunter13 16 hours ago I find that same problem with My No. 1 Mark III, Andries. Makes getting the bolt out almost impossible. The Savage I have is really simple and easy with that rail cut out. I should probably go ahead and convert that one, but since I don't really need another hunting rifle - it hangs on the wall too. t7562502007 13 hours ago Hold off on the converting if it is in a decent condition. Many have turned a $600 rifle into a $100 rifle by sporterizing. However I am not trying to tell you what to do with your property but those in good original condition are appreciating in price here in the US due to the collector market and the internet. Andries, you have a #4 mk1 Savage which was early and pre #4 mk1* Savage & Long Branch that had the ease of manufacturing modifications, including a 2 groove barrel. Andries 10 hours ago After having consumed thousands of PMP cordite propellant triggered by fulminate of mercury (so-called corrosive) primers during its first 50 years of life, and only in the past 20 years modern Somchem stuff the throat is still pristine and the rifling sharp and shiny like new. It really is a very accurate shooter. With the military ammunition I only used "Young's .303" to clean the bore and then Ballistol oil as a preservative and copper remover, and with the modern propellants I bronze brush the bore with normal kerosene (paraffin) and clean all out with Ballistol. Erich I trust all the chats are still within your your original line of interest - I could move the discussion to "Reliable Rifles" and if we have a great deal more to chat about I may do so. Tom, will you check the shops or Brownell's for Young's .303 gun oil? Like Ballistol it is a water soluble oil and also good for black powder guns. t7562502007 10 hours ago Edited: 9 hours ago Nada here except I think from Brownells. I think it and Ballistol are water based which would explain the corrosive salt removal in your bore, however I could be wrong regarding the water base on both. For some reason which I have not yet determined, it seems that the Long Branch rifles are a bit preferred probably due to the barrels, which makes no sense as those rifles and the Savage are identical. Made on identical machinery. Almost as if they were the same company, which they weren't, just close cooperation. Might be a good idea to move as we have taken this several degrees off from Erich's op, which was interesting in itself. frhunter13 2 hours ago My thoughts exactly, Tom. No need to convert the rifle. I did those back when I could not afford a good commercial rifle. I purchased the Savage for the purpose of mil spec competition but never really pursued that. Especially since I later acquired a 1942 Springfield Armory rebuilt Springfield O3 (not A3) with a 4 groove barrel. This one has a sword bayonet with a rawhide sheath. So cool, heh. It out shoots the Savage going away, but then I have not accurized either one. If I got the 303 dies and the right bullets, I am sure the Savage would improve. For that matter there is also the long WWII German 98 Mauser service rifle that shoots very well indeed! Not pretty, and quite cumbersome though. My father passed away recently and he was a collector. The list is long, and some have never been fired. All that aside, the Enfields appeal to me for some reason. Like Andries has said, the action is very fast. As for the oils, I find that Hopps #9 works fine on copper (smells awefull), and M-Pro 9 is a miracle with powder and brass (no smell). Tetra Gun Lube is good for penetration and moderate storage. Rem Oil goes on while hunting.
  • dcrimy
    Dec 4, 2017

    I recently acquired this delightful Ruger Mk11 stainless in 6.5x55, 18 1/2" Bbl, 1/8 twist. I mounted a 2x7 Redfield Revolution by Leupold . I feel this scope to be in keeping with the over all size balance of the rifle while providing plenty of magnification. A very safe 2906FPS with a 120gr bullet load was developed. The rifle will deliver consistent 3/4" groups striking +1.5" 100yds & dead on at 200yds. All loads were developed at my home here in Colorado at an elevation of 7630' above sea level. I can't tell you how much I enjoy the look & feel of this rifle. Pure joy to a rifle enthusiast like my self. It came into my possession to late to hunt with this past season but will see field work next year.

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